Heroes General Thread

(Dean) #1

So I got an email today welcoming me to the technical alpha. Anyone else get it?

(jbssteve) #2

no but cant wait to play it, been signed up on two emails for ages

(THEPete) #3

(Dean) #4

Well first that video is Dunkey haha. Not exactly an honest reviewer.

As for the game, it’s completely different to any other moba I’ve played yet. As he says, there is no farming or items to be bought, and yes you do level as a team. However the emphasis is more on moving around the map taking objectives and clearing camps. Jungle camps actually spawn minions for your team as opposed to just rewarding gold.

In all honesty though, I don’t see the issue with a leading team not gaining an insane lead. Imagine playing CS, and after winning 6 rounds in a row you constantly have better weapons for the rest of the game than the other team could achieve. Also it removes the whole sit in lane and farm for 10 minutes phase.

Does this make it a better game than LoL and Dota? No, but it is certainly different and shakes up the genre. Whether it’s for better or worse I’m yet to decide. But I did enjoy playing it earlier more than I have LoL or Dota recently.

(Sam Hather) #5

Played a few hours, found it to be pretty boring and haven’t revisited it in like 2 months now. Thought the maps were cool but that was about it.

(Dean) #6

New invites have been sent out, all check your accounts.

I’ve spent the past week on it, and personally I’m loving it. It’s massively different from LoL and Dota, which has obviously led a lot of people to say the skill ceiling has gone down. Personally, the only aspect that is gone is farming, everything else is there. Objective control is far more important than LoL, every jungle camp makes a massive difference to the game, every map has special objectives which must be controlled, and the heroes are a lot more interesting as well.

Some big things coming up from us soon, so keep an eye out.

(Matt) #7

Doesn’t this literally mean the skill ceiling has gone down though? As there’s always a way to comeback in a game, what’s the point of playing the entire thing when you might as well just have one fight to end it anyway.

Focus on Objectives is cool, but the reason LoL and DoTA get it so right is because they are all about the objectives, it’s just that the better players realise this while the newer guys don’t. When a game handholds you into that way of thinking it removes that first lump of knowledge, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but at the end of the day it does lower the skill ceiling overall.

Looks good, haven’t played it and don’t really want to as it’s just not competitive.

(Dean) #8

I believe Dota has a higher skill ceiling, I don’t think there are many games with a higher one apart from Quake and UT in my opinion. However I don’t think LoLs skill ceiling is as high, the mechanics are a lot easier and champions a lot simpler to understand. Riot have said they don’t plan on adding complex champions as they are hard for people to understand. Look at some of the Dota champs compared.

Heroes has a long way to go, but the game is certainly fun and has the potential. I wouldn’t say it’s not a competitive game, it just has a different skill set. I think once it gets more heroes it’s meta will evolve, and I’m fairly certain it will be a huge game.

(Matt) #9

Yeah I never said LoL had complex mechanics compared to DoTA. However what people constantly misunderstand about league is the fact that there is a huge amount of complexity in the overall way the game plays out. How your team plays together to get into the lead and keep it can be accomplished in so many different ways. Even if the champions themselves are simple. DoTA again is on another level, but there’s a reason so many people are stuck in bronze/silver on LoL.

But a competitive title where a team can’t snowball? Eh.

(Luka) #10

damn straight it does

(Nick) #11

This game shakes up the genre as much as Dominion did in League of Legends.

(Luka) #12

i honestly don’t get this, why shouldn’t the better players be winning/given an advantage? what is the point of a competitive multiplayer game if the difference in skill is irrelevant?

(Nick) #13

To be fair, if there’s a difference in skill then there’s already an advantage. The hard part about this will be balancing every single character in the game.

(Dean) #14

If you’re a better player, why do you need an advantage in game as well? I have no problem with players claiming a small advantage, like in CS or Quake, but in Dota and LoL it can lead to a massive advantage that makes it really hard to come back from. In CS for example, you can cause your opponents to have to eco round, which will give you a couple of rounds against unarmored enemies using only pistols. They can however still kill you quite quick, and pick up the weapons from your bodies to swing the fight in to their favor.

In Dota and LoL, the advantage is usually more damage and health, however it’s hard to break this down unless you manage to massively out farm them. Dota isn’t as bad, because death causes you to lose gold, where as in LoL other than a death timer you lose nothing from dying. Yes a death timer is a huge thing later on, but if you have already snowballed chances are you won’t lose the fight.

I just don’t like how snowballing plays out. A kill early can allow you to completely outzone an enemy, leaving them with less farm, and make them fall even further behind. Also players getting fed in one game, leads them to believe they are an amazing player and boosts egos. This isn’t so much a game problem as such, and more of a player attitude problem but it still exists.

As for Dominion shaking up the genre, it was never meant to. At no point have Riot balanced for dominion, nor put any work what so ever in to dominion since release. It was abandoned faster than it was released. It did however spawn Infinite Crisis, so I suppose it had some impact on the genre. Personally I’m just happy we aren’t seeing Dota 2 with Blizzard skins which is what I originally expected. I had completely lost interest with the moba genre, which is why I’m loving Heroes right now. I know that it won’t replace Dota 2 for the Dota fans, it was never meant to. Blizzard know that the Dota and LoL fans are deeply entrenched in their games, so they aren’t making any effort to steal them.

It’s a great idea, as they have seen first hand on double figure titles what has happened to MMO games that have tried to steal fans away from WoW by creating a clone with a little twist. Instead they are hitting a whole new player base, who liked aspects of the genre, or who have even gotten bored with the genre. It’s not ready for eSports yet, but with time and player feedback I don’t see why it can’t be in the future.

(Matt) #15

What ‘new’ player base? They are just trying to penetrate the current MOBA market. They have not created a different genre at all. The most ‘out there’ MOBA game so far has been Smite, which has seen decent success. I think that’s all they can hope for at this point…

They are chasing the market leaders. There’s no question.

(Dean) #16

Whole new player base was probably a wrong term, not literally never played moba player base. More fans from their own series who will play, and players bored of the current games. What I meant by not stealing LoL and Dota players, are the people who dedicate themselves to ranked games and play in teams. People who have put hundreds of hours in the game won’t be leaving, just like how people who put hundreds of hours in to WoW won’t be leaving.

I’m curious to see how Blizzard actually handle this, as it’s the first time they’ll be having a game that isn’t leader in it’s genre.

(Luka) #17

this is factually incorrect, might i ask how many hours you’ve spent in dota and if you could link your dotabuff profile? because this is not how the game works at all

(Dean) #18

I’m more than happy to admit I might be wrong on Dota, that’s just my small exposure to the game. I always felt like an early kill lead to a big advantage, but I haven’t played much of the game. I’m mainly using LoL as an example, but thought Dota was pretty similar. Is that not the case?

(Nick) #19

The whole point of me saying that is that this game will have the same effect on MOBA as dominion had: close to none. The only reason they make this game is because there are a lot of Blizzard fanboys and MOBA is a popular genre atm. They needed a somewhat different gametype so this is it. Kind of like how Heartstone is a dumbed down variation of Magic, ygo, etc. It’s really popular because it’s incredibly easy [to learn and play] and the fact that it is made by Blizzard

(Luka) #20

no that is actually not how dota works at all, in fact in one of the last patches (6.82a for reference) icefrog changed the gold system so that the money you earned when gaining a kill on an enemy was based on the difference in total net worth, this meant that if you killed anyone who was an item or two ahead of you, you’d net yourself about 2k gold and 3 levels worth of experience, so it was actually worse for you to get ahead. this, of course only lasted for a couple of weeks before the numbers were tweaked but serves to show as an example of the extreme.

anyway that’s irrelevant, but my point is that one of the things that sets dota apart from league is that it’s not impossible to make a comeback at any point of the game, the game can take a 180 swing in a matter of seconds as long as you’re able to play better than your opponent, capitalize on their mistakes and push your advantages. just recently i had a game (http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/959187256) where we were literally getting out shit pushed in for 50 minutes, but were able to make a comeback because we simply played better than the enemy team. you don’t have to be a dota expert to be able to look at the “difference in exp graph” and see that it’s quite substantial.

these images have existed for about 2 years now, but still hold true to both games and is part of the main reason why (for me) dota is much more fun to play and watch overall. i don’t want to brag or be a dick but i’ve spent literally thousands of hours playing both games, and at a high level too, so i know what i’m on about.