Raid Log Breakdown & Advice


(Xenoscythe) #1

Thought I’d open up a new topic to save cluttering up the raid one.

Everything I write here can be taken with a pinch of salt, none of it needs to be applied to your character or game-play if you do not wish, but I would recommend it to get the most out of your character. I will go through our raid team one by one suggesting what could be changed for different situations and comparing with the top end of the player-base.

The biggest mistake i see within our ranks are people using higher ilvl purple items over better blues regardless of if the stats are practically useless for them. This causes an inflated ilvl and a bunch of useless stats.
I will also go through setting up weakauras/tell me when for your class and how to use it effectively to manage your key spells.

I’ll start with myself explaining some of my thought process and what to expect.

##Xenöscythe - Arms

Stats & Stat Priority

Mastery > Strength > Versatility > Crit
Haste either being ahead of Mastery, or ahead of Versatility, depending on how close to the 20% haste breakpoint.

Notes

Only need items with Haste + Mastery or Haste/Matery + Versatility if large ilvl upgrade. Crit not worth a thing, replace all crit items ASAP.

Key Spells
Colossus Smash - CS
Mortal Strike - MS
Focused Rage - FR
Battle Cry - BC
WarBreaker - WB
WhirlWind - WW
BladeStorm - BS
Shattered Defenses - SD

Rotation / Spell Priority

Boss HP >20% CS on CD (don’t overwrite SD) -> MS on CD | FR when above 30 rage, slam when above 60 rage
Boss HP <20% CS on CD (don’t overwrite SD) -> 22 (18 dauntless) rage execute using SD -> spam execute | FR if you’re about to rage cap, save all FR stacks for BC

BC rotation
Boss HP >20% CS -> BC + 3FRMS on CD -> CS on CD -> slam if neither are up | spam FR and hamstring macro
Boss HP <20% CS -> BC + execute -> 3FRMS on last GCD | spam FR and hamstring macro

Rotation Notes
-Use WB on last GCD before a BC if CS debuff is inactive
-Do not delay BC more than 1-2 GCD for an SD proc.
-Run out and charge a boss when MS and CS are on cooldown, and you’ve just swung. Practice running out to charge, instead of wasting heroic leap. (worth 28k~ dps)
-On fights with cleave use Sweeping Strikes and put up CS debuff on as many targets as you can. With more than 5 targets use Cleave -> WB -> BC -> WW -> BS. Afterwards spread CS to as many targets as you can, while continuing your single target rotation

*Armory

Comparison
Our best attempt
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Aaxk2F6WBZYQtCNh#fight=7&type=damage-done&source=13
vs
Their kill
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wTdfCqnzAv1bVck7#fight=29&type=damage-done&source=43

Key Differences

Damage done

  • (Ignore execute damage as that is final 16%)
  • Potion of the Old War did 10% of his damage, that is huge. I should stock up on these.
  • His average MS hit was higher damage, but quite a many less casts - indicating I should stack FR higher in order to get bigger hits before unleashing MS
  • I cast slam a lot more than him, i should instead use this rage for FR as previously indicated
  • He cast hamstring, a LOT. I personally think this is a mistake on his part as though it does consume rage to reset CS, i still managed to cast CS more than him. However I should investigate.
  • Satyr only added 2.3mil damage for me, very disappointing for such an expensive neck enchant. Consider other options on new neck.

Damage Taken

  • I took a LOT of rot damage. Im guessing this is because of their larger raid making it less likely to get the rot debuff and take damage from other peoples.
  • Infested count was pretty similar.
  • I dodged bugs like a champ that attempt. More of this everytime.
  • I took Breath hits, should dodge these using Herioc Leap instead of using it to get out.

Gear Upgrade Suggestions
Mythic/Herioc Warforged versions of



http://www.wowhead.com/item=137052/ayalas-stone-heart dreamemes


(Dean) #3

http://www.walkingthewind.com/2016/09/14/stat-weights-and-you/

I recommend people give this a read. While Pawn is a reasonable indicator it seems that its not the be all and end all. I’m sure there is a website like this for every other spec somewhere.


(Xenoscythe) #7

@DayC

##Uxea - Fire Mage

Stats & Stat Priority
Overall to keep your damage great in all situations your priority would be
Crit>Int>Mastery>Sp>Vers>Haste

Notes
Single target, rule of thumb is Crit > everything, its ahead by a large margin only intellect and spell power are close.
Crit>Int>Sp>Vers>Haste>Mastery
4+ Targets would still keep crit up high however now Mastery gains a large amount too
Mastery>Int>Crit>Sp>Vers>Haste

Gear Upgrade Suggestions
Aim for any Crit/Mastery with Socket if possible.
Your current trinkets are very underwhelming and compared to top end mages of similar iLvl are probably losing you 5-10% damage in comparison per fight.

Your relics should be made up of:



With fire at will being ranked highest.

Talents

Currently you’re using
Pyromaniac - Shimmer - Rune of Power - Flame On - Ice Floes - Unstable Magic - Kindling

I recommend trying out:

  • Single target: Pyromaniac - Shimmer - Rune of Power - Flame On - Ice Floes - Unstable Magic - Cinderstorm
  • Cleave/AoE fights: Conflagration - Shimmer - Rune of Power - Flame On - Ice Floes - Living Bomb - Cinderstorm

If sticking with one all raid/instance, I would recommend:

  • Conflagration - Shimmer - Rune of Power - Flame On - Ice Floes - Unstable Magic - Cinderstorm

This will provide higher single target & sustained damage but will add an extra move to your rotation.
Kindling is not a bad talent by any means but require a lot more thought when it comes to setting up cooldown chains it also requires optimal use of combustion. That said, in Mythic+ Kindling is usually safest for not pulling half the instance.

My simulations have put Cinderstorm as giving you an 9.4% increase in DPS if used almost on cooldown. And cinderstorms damage would add a total of 11.5% to your boss fights along with ~2-3% from Conflagration.

Rotation / Spell Priority

Sustained damage

It is important to note that Fire Blast is used while casting Fireball. When you chain Fireball and one critically strikes, do not cancel your cast. Simply keep casting another Fireball, hit Fire Blast while it’s casting, and follow it up with a Pyroblast.

  • Cast Cinderstorm on cooldown.
  • (with Rune of Power talented) Do not sit on 2 charges. Float at 1 charge while using ones that aren’t going to be paired with Combustion to take advantage of stat procs and Flame On if talented.
  • (with Living Bomb talented) Cast Living Bomb if it will spread to something, it’s okay to delay it a few seconds if it guarantees a spread to many adds. If no targets other than the main target are present, it is a DPS loss to cast compared to not using it at all.
  • (with Flame On talented) Cast Flame On to recover 2 charges of Fire Blast in order to keep forcing Hot Streak. If a Combustion is imminent, save it a few seconds in order to pair them up.
  • don’t cap Phoenix’s Flames charges unless Combustion is following shortly.
  1. Cast Fireball until you get Heating Up.
  2. Cast Fire Blast to turn it into Hot Streak.
  3. Cast Pyroblast to consume Hot Streak.

The filler rotation is to chain Fireball until one critically strikes and provides us with Heating Up. Then, not stopping the chain-casting of Fireball, use Fire Blast to turn Heating Up into Hot Streak, and queue up a Pyroblast so that it fires off directly after the Fireball we’re in the process of casting. While doing this, keep using talented abilities such as Living Bomb and Cinderstorm in the way described above in order to get maximum benefit out of them.

Combustion

Exploiting the full potential of Combustion requires some setup. The main goal during it is to cast as few filler spells as possible and as many hard hitting spells as possible. In order to facilitate this we should try to have at least 2 charges of Fire Blast available plus Hot Streak when Combustion is used. Because of how Cinderstorm hits in batches, we can stand inside the hitbox of our target and have them all hit simultaneously. This means that any cinders which crit will grand us a stack of Pyretic Incantation, while any cinders that do not crit won’t remove them. Any on-use trinkets, potions and other applicable buffs should be stacked on top of it as much as possible in order to increase its effect.

The priority system in the seconds before Combustion is used, and while it is active, is as follows:

  • (if using Rune of Power) cast Rune of Power before you Combustion.
  • (if using Flame On) Cast Flame On when you have no Fire Blast charges left.
  • don’t cap Phoenix’s Flames charges.
  1. Cast Pyroblast.
  2. Cast Fire Blast when you have Heating Up.
  3. Phoenix’s Flames.

Ideally it would look something like: Pyroblast -> Fire Blast -> Pyroblast -> Fire Blast -> Flame On -> Pyroblast -> Fire Blast -> Pyroblast -> Fire Blast -> Pyroblast -> Phoenix’s Flames -> Pyroblast. Strings of Pyroblast like these will produce very high amounts of damage.

In the opener, pre-cast Pyroblast -> Rune of Power -> Combustion -> Phoenix’s Flames and then enter the sequence shown above, using Fire Blast and Phoenix’s Flames to generate procs to fuel Pyroblast.

Note that if you are pre-potting with Potion of Deadly Grace, it’s better to pre-cast Fireball instead of Pyroblast in order to waste less potion uptime.

If you have Pyretic Incantation relic and have talented into Cinderstorm:

Pre-cast Pyroblast -> Cinderstorm -> Rune of Power -> use Combustion just before the cinders hit the boss. This will instantly give you 5 stacks. Then proceed as you otherwise would in the sequence above this.

If the pre-cast Pyroblast does not crit, cast a Fire Blast alongside the first Phoenix’s Flames to ensure a Hot Streak.

Rotation Notes
I’ve compared multiple sources and ran each simulation against them and this rotation plan turned out the best across the board.
https://www.altered-time.com/ - Is a useful Mage resource and where the majority of the rotation information came from here with the useless stuff taken out.

Armory

Comparison
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/L4GVAmfkwHxnpah3/#type=damage-done&fight=5&source=9
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6hAqnPztjCRgV2Xf#fight=2&type=damage-done&source=9

Key Differences
Crit - Major difference, he was at 45% when his ilvl was the same as yours.
Fireballs cast - because of the lack of crit, you spend a LOT more time casting fireball fishing for procs, so much so you have almost double his casts in a small amount more time yet he has almost 50% more pyroblasts than you. This can also be down to a rotation error regarding fire blast and phoenix flames usage.

Damage Done
Potion of Deadly Grace - Makes up 10% of his damage and adds a large amount of DPS. Invest/Farm some!
Trinkets - His trinkets did 8-9% of his damage. Your trinkets, although decent do not add upto anywhere near this amount of damage.
Satyr - Free 3%-10% damage per boss fight, slap it on your neckpiece! (NVM YOU HAVE NOW)


(Xenoscythe) #8

I’ve deleted Deans slightly wrong information and any replies to keep the thread cleanish. As a general DPS/Healer rule, stacking your top stat will lead to a greater increase than equally stacking your stats.

The crit soft cap for fire mages is miles above any Monk cap so his information does not apply here until probably all 880+ gear

Monks (and Tanks) are a whole different kettle of fish compared to any other class & spec regarding their stats.

If you want your perfect stat weights you’ll need to learn to sim-craft each situation. Pawn is a good indicator for an all round stat collection WHEN you put in the correct weights, the defaults are terrible.

FYI @smather your priority (As tank) should be

Raid Survival: Vers > Haste > Mastery > Crit
DPS: Mastery = Crit >= Vers >= Haste
M+: Mastery > Crit >= Vers > Haste

So basically they’re all good depending on situation and what youre aiming for in your tanking. As it stands you’ll be taking shit loads more damage in raids as going by your armory you’re pretty much geared like a DPS :stuck_out_tongue:


(Sam Hather) #9

Yeah man my Crit is fucking stupidly high. Starting to get more Vers + haste now though.


(DayC) #10

@Xenoscythe Had a look at your suggestions, like you said i’ve got enchant on neck now and potion is easy enough to sort out. My big query comes with the

Cinders seems to get me more damage in the bursts but the bursts come along less frequently which means I have longer downtime. I know my downtime rot but i’m doing it for longer and therefore casting more fireballs to fish for crits which is exactly what you don’t want me doing according to the last part of your post.

Could you explain like i’m 5 the theory behind what I should be doing please mate? I’m just confused as to how in the long run CiS is providing me with more damage on single target stuff.


(Xenoscythe) #11

Okay,

I’ll give a couple of examples:

Based on a 3.5 minute fight, eg Ursoc

  • With Kindling you get 3 combustions.

  • Without Kindling you get 1 combustions.

  • In that same time you can cast 19 cinderstorms which hit for ~330k total each

  • 1 combustion would not equal the extra 6,270,000 damage + the ignite damage you would gain from using cinderstorm on cooldown.

Based on a ~6 minute fight, eg Dragons/Elerethe

  • With Kindling you get 5 combustions.

  • Without Kindling you get 2 combustions.

  • In that same time you can cast 35 cinderstorms which hit for ~330k total each

  • 3 extra combustions would still not equal the extra 11,550,000 damage + the ignite damage you would gain from using cinderstorm on cooldown.


(Xenoscythe) #12

@Smidsy
Was simming your character, try taking icy talons as your first talent, it looks to add another 12k dps, might want to give that a go!


(DayC) #13

Cheers @Xenoscythe so my next question is where (taking the ursoc fight as an example) where am I fitting in 19 cinderstorms without breaking my my heating up chain? Or is the logic that if I come out of the chain I fire a volley off and try to get the chain going again to keep Pyretic Incantation up as long as possible and with the longer gaps between combust i’m going to have more opportunity to use it?


(Xenoscythe) #14

@DayC

Yep, thats the plan! It not only gives your flame on/phoenix flames chance to regen more, but it means your filler isn’t just fireball fishing, in reality you dont need to even hit cinderstorm every cooldown for it to pull ahead. Everytime your pyro doesnt crit, cast cinderstorm.

You can also give your opener a huge boost by casting combustion just as you about to fire off cinderstorm so that you get all 5 stacks of PI see here for an example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3PowTEQNIg

Also if you cast cinderstorm in melee range and get 2 crits, due to some sort of heating up protection you get to keep your heating up proc which can start your nuke all over again.

This all said, Kindling is NOT a bad talent, if you wish to continue using it that would not be an issue and at higher gear levels (read 65%+ crit) it can even pull ahead.


(DayC) #15

Cheers @Xenoscythe i’ll be running this setup tonight. Heavily changed my UI last night, new hotkey for Cinderstorm, added percentage healths to targets for time warp and added a nice new castbar + big cooldown icons courtesy of weakauras.

Don’t think i’ll get the chance to create any pots of deadly grace but i’ll see what I can do when I get in. Maybe one of those juicy trinks will drop tonight :slight_smile:


(DayC) #16

Friend from work dropping heroic nyth at the end of the stream if anyone’s interested. Gets rot a lot here but he’s taking tips i’ve been passing on from @3DCM no flask pull aswell.


(DayC) #17

@Xenoscythe

Roughly how long it took us last night
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LAcRKYZda4rNnwT3/#type=damage-done&fight=2&source=8

I didn’t quite get there last night, I cast 14 of which all 84 cinders hit and it hit for roughly 326k each cast leaving me with that nice extra 4.52m damage.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LAcRKYZda4rNnwT3/#type=damage-done&fight=4&source=8

I cast 11 hahaha… I believe in the new rotation on the Ursoc and Xavius fights alone, I just need to get less shit at it!

Satyr is now giving me roughly 3m extra damage for doing literally nothing and during the Xavius fight when I had the new trinket on it gave another 3m ish extra damage. That stuff makes a big difference for me whilst i’m practicing as it means I get 5 - 7m damage for just standing there and doing fuck all, making up for some movement + DPS loss I might have been seeing, although this feels like it’s getting better.

Practice, practice, practice. Saw a huge DPS increase on the final fight and i’d still fucked up, several times. I can compete and beat @3DCM and @Smidsy in the charts with my damage potential by the looks of it, i’m just not that good mechanically to dish it out yet.

Looking at last week’s Ursoc compared to this weeks i’m seeing a 22k DPS improvement and I was slightly less active.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/L4GVAmfkwHxnpah3/#type=damage-done&fight=5
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LAcRKYZda4rNnwT3/#type=damage-done&fight=2

Nythendra I fucked up massively on the rotation and still saw a 10k DPS increase
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/L4GVAmfkwHxnpah3/#type=damage-done&fight=1
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LAcRKYZda4rNnwT3/#type=damage-done&fight=1

Dragons I got fucked on as you could probably tell in discord and lost 51k
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/L4GVAmfkwHxnpah3/#type=damage-done&fight=2
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LAcRKYZda4rNnwT3/#type=damage-done&fight=3

Spider bitch was weird, I spent much more time active but lost 17k which looks to be down to my lack of cinderstorming
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/L4GVAmfkwHxnpah3/#type=damage-done&fight=3
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LAcRKYZda4rNnwT3/#type=damage-done&fight=4

Eye / Tree was sick, down in 3:50 but still not enough DPS from me imo
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/L4GVAmfkwHxnpah3/#type=damage-done&fight=6
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LAcRKYZda4rNnwT3/#type=damage-done&fight=6

Cenarius I saw a slight increase in but rubbish really, messed up a lot of rots on this and seemed to forget that Cinder was there
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/L4GVAmfkwHxnpah3/#type=damage-done&fight=8
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LAcRKYZda4rNnwT3/#type=damage-done&fight=7

Finally Xavius I threw out more DPS but still only 11 Cinders, need to throw waaay more out
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LAcRKYZda4rNnwT3/#type=damage-done&source=8


(Xenoscythe) #18

I swear I responded to that message with an essay but i can’t find it anywhere. That’s annoying.


(Xenoscythe) #19

Our Best 2 Attempts

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/XZNpPtMnT9bw4WAK#type=summary&fight=20
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/XZNpPtMnT9bw4WAK#type=summary

vs

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/3YzaRwr8kcTyXjLK#fight=28&type=summary

Key differences

  • DPS - With the iLevels that we have we should be pushing a bit higher, get on the target dummies and practice your single target rotations. If you can’t push-it any higher theres a good chance your iLevel is inflated with wrong stat items. If you can push it higher that those logs on the dummy, you need to work on your positioning and movement in the actual boss fights to make sure you’re still outputting the same damage!
  • Healing - We have a really really low amount of overhealing compared to nearly all the logs i can find on that fight. Though thats not usually a bad thing, leaving people to take damage before actually healing them will endup in un-necessary deaths! Other than that, healing was really good.
  • First 15 attempts our stacks and swaps were all over the place, in those last two logs we were doing it almost perfect, really good job @smather + @Ruwina .
  • Raid Size - they have 13 people, 3 extra dps, each did around 50 million damage so +150m damage and the boss only gained ~90 million extra HP (though i’m not sure how linear it scales.)

Fix Our Stuff

  • Dps - Needs to aim for 220k each! Enchants, gems & pots! + recruit a couple more @Noodle
  • Heals - More overhealing!
  • Tanks - Perfect now taunting is sorted! Perhaps just spacing the miasma a little tighter? And try to keep the boss stationary when hes about to charge someone.

#20

I should have at least a 20k’ish increase minimum, need to work on the rotation but yea. I haven’t checked Simcraft as for some reason it won’t install but whilst from what I can see Barrage has a damage advantage over MoC it seems that most are running MoC on single target bosses. Pretty much with MoC being on a 1min CD and 30 focus compared to 20sec and 60 focus on Barrage it means there’s more Aimed Shot casts which is where the majority of the DMG comes from. Main issue I’m seeing right now with it is my Sidewinders proc doesn’t seem to proc as often leading to starved focus but that could just be a rotation issue. Also wondering if I need to start reducing some mastery for haste - but i’ll check that later tonight.


(DayC) #21

I’d say the ilvls are inflated on me a bit at the moment, over the 20 wipes I did a good amount of damage and I fell just short of @3DCM

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/XZNpPtMnT9bw4WAK#type=damage-done&boss=1841&wipes=1

BUT the big problem here is that i’m still sitting in the bottom 13% of mages at my ilvl range in 7.7k parses. That is a HUGE gap between me and other mages at this ilevel. I think it’s time to look at some of my pieces and see if I can pull in some bits that are lower level but higher crit.

From what i’ve heard this is fairly normal, the tanks have a lot to think about in this fight and from a DPS pov you could tell it got much more consistent the later into the night we got.

This is a really big thing for me, i’m just going to start putting things in the guild bank for people for raiding but I only have access to the donations so hopefully people won’t just take stuff out at will.

I can’t do high end food yet, so if somebody else could focus on churning out that, that’d be great.

Gems / Enchants, who is on these? Hit me up I should probably have the one off int gem in my neck and another crit enchant on my other ring.

Would be good to get a list of what everyone requires so we know what to focus on the most.


(Xenoscythe) #22

So to get the 2 pots per fight, you have to pop a pot just before combat starts. Mystery solved.


(Dean) #23

People can put into donations but can’t take anything out. The first tab FFA people can do what they want with it. I will work out a way to reward people who donate, although overall most people do seem to be doing everything they can to help each other out.

I’ll think of some banging rewards for anyone who get’s us new raiders as well.


(Sam Hather) #24

you seen this? @DayC http://www.method.gg/board/showthread.php?18950-Lexi-s-Fire-Mage-Guide